Celui qui assène une vérité qui ne devrait nullement prêter à discussion

Y avait aussi Suicide et les Ramones, quand même. Et le point commun des trois, c'était (le producteur) Craig Leon.

Les Ramones, malgré leur énorme influence sur la scène punk anglaise, n'avaient pas le génie musical des Talking Heads. Suicide, encore moins.

Et sinon, ton info est inexacte. Craig Leon n'a jamais rien produit pour les Talking Heads.

Talking Heads c'est... Talking Heads quoi. Ca recycle...

Plus grand groupe je sais pas, en tout cas leur son était réellement unique et ils ont réussi à devenir l'un des groupes les plus influents de ces dernières décennies...

J'ai bien dit "le plus grand groupe américain", hein, Albin. Le plus grand du monde à l'époque était européen. C'était Roxy Music, bien sûr.

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Craig Leon n'a pas produit les Talking Heads mais il les a découverts et a travaillé avec eux à leurs débuts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Leon

Quant à parler de génie musical pour les Talking Heads, je trouve ça vraiment exagéré. David Byrne est sans aucun doute un surdoué, mais les autres...

Les autres se sont quand même bien tapés la grosse honte avec leur album Just Talking no Head sorti il y a une dizaine d'années, oui...

"Le Soleil, c'est un bar ?"

Oui, un café de bobos et d’artistes gauchistes, au centre-ville. J’adore aller y causer politique. ^^

"David Byrne est sans aucun doute un surdoué, mais les autres..."

Un groupe, c’est un tout. David Byrne était certes le parolier et le compositeur principal, mais les trois autres ont quand même amené beaucoup d‘idées de mélodies et d‘arrangements (ils sont d‘ailleurs tous crédités comme coauteurs de la musique). Mais les Talking Heads peuvent en fait être plutôt considérés comme un collectif, avec l’apport de nombreux musiciens extérieurs et, l’espace de trois albums, Brian Eno qui, comme producteur, s’est comporté comme le véritable cinquième membre du groupe.

Tout ce que tu racontes là est totalement faux, Jérôme.

Je t'ai conseillé la lecture de Rip It Up & Start Again de Simon Reynolds. Tu m'as demandé si on y parlait des Talking Heads, c'est le cas et j'ai lu le chapitre depuis notre conversation. C'est beaucoup moins angélique que ta version de fan, c'était clairement Byrne et Eno les leaders et il ne peut certainement pas être question de "collectif" avec deux control freaks de la sorte aux manettes!

Déjà pose toi la question : pourquoi "by David Byrne & Talking Heads" alors que David Byrne est leader, chanteur et compositeur du groupe dont il se détache sur la mention légale !!!

Déjà, Eno n'a bossé avec les Talking Heads que sur trois de leurs huit albums (les trois meilleurs, certes). Et en ce qui concerne les crédits, j'ai sous les yeux le livret de Speaking in tongues, l'album de 1983 qui a succédé à la trilogie avec Eno, et le nom de Byrne n'y est pas particulièrement mis en évidence (Produced by Talking Heads), si ce n'est comme auteur des paroles, la composition étant également attribuée aux trois autres.

Puis, merde, Tina Weymouth, quelle bassiste !

Lis le Reynolds, on en reparle après. Les Talking Heads étaient tout sauf un groupe soudé et ce, dès Fear Of Music. Et effectivement, se dégage l’image d’un Byrne génial mais difficile à vivre et celle de 3 couillons qui veulent juste être pop-stars, d’où beaucoup de divergences artistiques et de compromis niveau crédits !

Monsieur Coosemans, les portes de notre club vous sont grand ouvertes !

J’ai relu, alors voilà.
Fear of Music, ça va, c’est encore la lune de miel entre Eno et les autres. Y a juste que Byrne prend un panard monstre sur I Zimbra et Drugs et veut aller plus loin. Eno et lui développent l’idée de My Life in the Bush of Ghosts, qui devait à l’origine les voir accompagnés de Jon Hassell. Finalement le disque sort après Remain in Light, bien qu’enregistré avant, à cause d’un télévangéliste samplé qui veut des sous et refuse les droits au label !
Eno et Byrne sont devenus potes comme cochons et ne jurent plus que par les manipulations. Sur Remain, les autres sont en fait utilisés comme des musiciens de studio et tout n’est que jams remixées par essentiellement Eno et Byrne, sans parler des musiciens imposés comme Adrian Belew. Les deux se sont ensuite attribués l’écriture des chansons, avant que cela ne devienne le fameux « by DB, BE & TH », ce qui ne contenta personne vu que même Eno et Byrne finirent par se tirer la gueule.
La tournée a vu s’ajouter des musiciens principalement parce que le son était sinon impossible à reproduire vu qu’il y a plusieurs couches de basses et de guitares sur le disque. C’était clairement inspiré de Funkadelic/Parliament. Le truc, c’est que Remain In Light a été un four aux Etats-Unis à sa sortie et que le Tom Tom Club a en fait mieux marché. Donc, pour ne pas couler et rembourser les dettes, ils ont ensuite pris une direction plus pop, sans Eno et Byrne a du un peu fermer sa gueule et désormais faire le mariolle expérimental sous son nom propre.
Alors, le couplet « collectif » et « un groupe, c’est tout », tu m’excuseras. Ces gens là ont encore mis une dizaine d’années pour se haïr mais le ver était très tôt dans la pomme et les meilleurs albums du groupe sont surtout des trips certes géniaux mais totalement égotiques de Byrne et Eno !

Te voilà prêt pour une chronique de Fear of music sur Pop-Rock, Serge.

Au fait, Professeur Coosemans, encore une question. Si Adrian Belew a été imposé aux autres par Byrne et Eno sur Remain in light, comme tu le dis, peux-tu m'expliquer pourquoi Tina Weymouth et Chris Frantz ont fait appel à ce même Belew deux ans plus tard pour jouer sur le premier Tom Tom Club ?

Parce qu'ils se sont mieux entendus avec lui qu'avec Eno et même Byrne.

Prends pas trop les dates de sorties comme références non plus, Bush, Remain et Tom Tom ont tous été enregistrés plus ou moins en même temps, même si les sorties ont été étalées dans le temps.

@ Jérôme : 'Les Ramones, malgré leur énorme influence sur la scène punk anglaise, n'avaient pas le génie musical des Talking Heads. Suicide, encore moins.'

Expliquez svp comment vous qualifiez 'génie'. Je vous dis tout des suite que je suis fan des Talking HeadsET de Suicide ET de certains albums solos de Alan Vega (sa collaboration avec Alex Chilton et Ben Vaughn, quel bonheur!)

Comparez les disques évoqués ci-dessus des Talking Heads avec les disques de Funkadelic, Parliament, Sly and the Family Stone, Fela, et surtout le Miles Davis électrique. Vous constaterez que leur génie consiste surtout à allier un bon gout musical à un sens de la synthèse..C'est tout à leur honneur d'ailleurs, mais reste qu'ils ont été précédés par des autres dans leur quête polyrythmique.

Par contre, pour Suicide, c'est plus dur à voir qui les a précédés, à moins d'aller voir dans le rock'n'roll, et çà n'expliquerait vraiment pas tout!

Même si on prend en compte le critère d'influence, Suicide est encore toujourrs dans la course :-)

Alors, le terme 'génie', ce serait bien de le qualifier un peu, non?

Bien à vous,

Mathieu

Je ne vous parle pas, à vous, mélomane à la petite semaine. Retournez donc écouter Tin Machine. :p

Monsieur Coosemans, n'en jetez plus ! Je vous accorde, au choix, le poste de trésorier ou de secrétaire général.

Te voilà prêt pour une chronique de Fear of music sur Pop-Rock, Serge.

J'y pensais mais je n'ai que le disque en vynile et la platine n'est pas branchée et j'ai plus le câble et ça me gave de me lever toutes les 20 minutes pour retourner le truc et je vais plutôt faire un groupe belge et... :D

oui, je retourne écouter Tin Machine.

Et Fela, Miles, Sly & the family stone, funkadelic, parliament, coltrane, stravinski,..

petite semaine?

Vous ne me connaissez même pas :-)

Alors, comment qualifiez-vous un génie ?

De quel groupe belge moqué par Serge et moi fais-tu partie, l’ano ?

N'empêche que vous préférez plutôt répondre à l'ano insultant qu'à une question pertinente et non-agressive, mon cher monsieur :-)

vous disiez donc, le 'génie', c'etait quoi exactement?

Génie : nom masculin. Aptitude faisant qu'une personne est capable de créer des choses extraordinaires et nouvelles.

Tu n'as vraiment pas de dictionnaire à portée de main ?

Jedrôle Delveau,

Ta prose me rappelle celle de la sous-merde qui pigea un moment chez Poncelet. Aies au moins le courage de tes opinions, sors de l'anonymat. Ca aussi, ça s'appelle "casser le rêve" :-)

Laquelle de sous-merde qui a fait des piges chez Poncelet, Serge ? Il y en a eu plusieurs…

Il y eut des gens très bien aussi (pas toi) :DDDD

Moi, j'ai jamais fait de piges chez Poncelet. J'ai juste foutu trois ou quatre fois le Bronx à son micro, bu de l'alcool dans le studio malgré l'interdiction et récité du Wikipédia (dixit Macha Potach) au sujet de Front 242, Depeche Mode et Joy Division. ;)

C'est à ce moment ci qu'il va surgir et nous crier "tu vois que t'écoutes mon émission puisque tu sais qui y est passé!" :D

Hé non, je n'ai fait que lire la liste sur MySpace :D

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